Lately, I’ve been doing a little studying on what they call the “jam band scene”. It’s a little odd to me because, at one one time, most musicians, at least occasionally, would engage in jamming. I tend to think that a lot of the music that I grew up on would or, could, get lumped in to the Jam Band genre if, it were to happen today.
As I look at it from a historical perspective, in my mind, there are a couple of big time bands that had an essential role in ushering in what we now call Jam Band.
So tonight, I bring you….
The Grateful Dead or The Allman Brothers?
Remember, have fun ’cause it’s all in good fun.
Sans Direction wrote,
Both have two drummers.
Both feature both keys and guitars as lead instruments.
Both had core members of the band die very early in their career.
Both carried on after those deaths.
Both are far more known for their live shows than their albums.
Both rely on the early parts of their back catalog
Europe 72 - Fillmore East
I think it comes down to the guitarists.
Jerry Garcia vs Duane Allman.
That’s a tough one. I know where I lean (Skydog!) but that’s tough. So, let’s compare #2 guitarists.
Bob Weir vs Dickey Betts, Warren Haynes, Derek Trucks, Jimmy Herring. Allman has it by numbers, but the numbers aren’t necessarily a winning thing. Consider the vast vast number of people who have been in the Byrds or Sabbath. Last I heard Alice Cooper on the radio, he was saying that he was going on tour with Sabbath so he wouldn’t have to join it.
Allmans had radio play well before the Dead, at least where I was listening.
First time I ever played out, I played solo acoustic, and I started “Friend of the Devil”. I say started because once I started playing it, I totally forgot everything related to the lyrics. I could not have been more embarrassed.
Where was I?
Ah, yes. “Friend of the Devil”. Sorry, Skydog, I’m with the Dead.
Sans Direction’s last blog post..How Long Must We Sing This Song?
Link | June 27th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
J wrote,
Allman Brothers, because I like their songs. Somehow, I never learned to appreciate the Grateful Dead; my impression was that their concerts were somewhat self-indulgent. My loss, probably.
J’s last blog post..Piano Bootcamp vs. Footloose vs. Blog
Link | June 27th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Sans Direction wrote,
Get Workingman’s Dead and American Beauty. They’re all about the songs, without the improvisational excess.
Sans Direction’s last blog post..How Long Must We Sing This Song?
Link | June 27th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Gary wrote,
Aw c’mon Jack, whilst this would appear to be easy for me (Dead, Dead, Dead, Dead, Dead) I also love The Allmans - I’ve been listening a lot to Warren Haynes for a few years - in the Allmans and Gov’t Mule too. But for me, it has to be The Dead - the songs, the playing (by all musicians), the family, the jamming. My new band Big G is hoping to be a jamband - whilst we can play the songs, the rest of the band aren’t anywhere near as familiar with the material as I am - it is in my blood, so it will take some time before we truly jam in the jamband sense of the word.
Jack you should check out Gov’t Mule, String Cheese Incident, Umphrey’s McGee, Widespread Panic - and of course, Little Feat - they’ve been jamming a lot lately too.
Answer?
The Dead!
Gary’s last blog post..Lovely Hamer guitars
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 2:15 am
Pat Darnell And Friends wrote,
This surprises me as much as you, if you know my ‘druthers. I agree with Mr Gary above. I “attended” the Dead Experience once in Houston Astrodome… yet I “went” to three Allman concerts in Houston Coliseum also.
The Dead “is” the Jam-Band defined,, no?
After opening with “Sweet Melissa’ Man” back in ‘72; Duane said: “Don’t worry, we’re gonna play every damn thing we know.”
– but –
After starting around 9 PM, sometime after midnight, and the 65,000 attending the Dead marathon still all there, the Dead acts like they are leaving, with Jerry’s little wave.. soft mellow applause and there they come back out, play a encore for about another hour with no pause between tunes. Good family entertainment.
Dead head.
Pat Darnell And Friends’s last blog post..MTC 13: What I’ve never told anyone
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Pribek wrote,
Nobody has said anything about Greg?
Is there a better blues shouter/ballad crooner than Greg Allman?
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Sans Direction wrote,
That’s a point.
Pigpen was the Dead’s keys guy and blues/soul singer, and he left us a while ago, while Gregg’s still going strong.
It might be sacrilege but I think Michael McDonald has a slight edge there, but Gregg’s mighty good, too. And if that’s the battleground, Allmans. But it just ain’t.
But I don’t know anyone into the Dead who doesn’t also appreciate the Allmans, and almost vice versa, so it’s more both.
Sans Direction’s last blog post..How Long Must We Sing This Song?
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Pat Darnell And Friends wrote,
Hi J: In addition to Sans honorable mentions… In our Darnell Clan, FT Worth/Dallas/Austin/Houston family circle: Trukkin’ is most oft repeated Dead song to date… as you might have missed that one.
As all have pointed out bodies of work, and helped me figure out some stuff — here I present yet another subjective Rating of “the blues/country/rock originals’voices” from glibness to decrepit:
Glibness — Pribek, Charlie Daniels, Neil Simon,,, etc
Glib/Raspyness — Levon Helm [Band]; the Late Satchmo; Billy Joel; maybe Jerry Garcia
Raspyness — Jim Morrison, Sinatra, bar singers,
Raspyness/Decrepit — Howling Wolf, Gregg Allman
Decrepit — Tom Waite’s
and there you have it! Now: Feel free to drop on me wee head the 20-ton Monty Python anvil… I suppose I deeeserve it!
Pat Darnell And Friends’s last blog post..MTC 13: What I’ve never told anyone
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Pribek wrote,
Sans, you left out Dan Toler. I’m hear to tell you that Dangerous Dan doesn’t take a back seat. Rock solid and harmonically advanced.
Gary, Feat is a big milepost for me. I saw Feat open for the Allmans once actually.
I was more pumped up about the Mule earlier on maybe, it was because of Woody. Those guys are tough though, everybody talks about Warren but, that Matt Abts makes that thing possible for him to fly. Widespread Panic I’ve listened to some and the others less.
From the curmudgeon side of me, I have to say I’m much more into the jamming part than the “scene”, the “family”, veggie burritos, doses, balloons or the parking lot. The only Dead show I ever attended was their penultimate one in St. Louis that, possibly soured me more on the whole scene premise. Before that show, there was a riot at the previous venue. After that show (that night) 11 or 12 died dancing on a deck that collapsed. Days after Garcia took his last trip.
In defense of the family; While driving down to Big Sur with my brother and a buddy of his, we passed another guy selling tie-dyes roadside. Bro’s bud insisted that we turn the car around and he bought several pricey shirts. As we headed out, he explained the he recognized the guy’s work as we drove by and he wanted to support the guy because, he liked the shirts and he had heard through the vine that the guy had Leukemia. That was impressive.
I haven’t followed the Allman Brothers much after Betts left. Something about that doesn’t seem right. Original member and he’s the one that brought Warren and Woody in. He was behind reviving the thing.
Also, Berry Oakley was fabulous. I give the nod to ABB rhythm section. Nothing against the Dead’s but Jaimoe and Butch are strong as bear’s breath.
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Pat Darnell And Friends wrote,
Uh… Mr Young ‘un… some things are before your time. by the time StLoo came around it was all done and finished by the slowest growing jammband ever, [self-proclaimed]. Everything inside of Jerry Garcia was now out, his gizzards were spread all over the world, and nothing was left inside. I truly thought this week’s match was a personal statement, because of the songs:
“This,” I thought, “is a Friday night cage match to distinguish between the fastest dying group of musicians, and the longest, slowest growing group of musicians who are called the Dead.”
But no,,, there you go makin’ a case for chops over content. After 1973 resurrecting the Dead was a college co-ed clam digger’s favorite pun while running around with top hats and skeleton face masks. I am surprised you can distinguish the two, since warlocks to disbanding after Garcia passed: comprises a destiny, of what, long-lividness 1964 to 1995? Hmmmm… you were born around 1965!!!
So after 1970 release of albums, in my humble pie opinion the Dead had hit its second act by 1973 at here:
The Dead third and final act is 1977 with Long Strange Trip… the rest, everything after is Epilogue.
You see, Timmy, The Dead are a little too close to home, and that can make it all a little disconcerting. And if I look deeper in the treasure chest of cheat notes:
This history lesson revisited has more to do with development of sound systems that could be played outdoors in the age of stadium rock concerts. Success of the groups follows the technology advancing.
We late 20th century renaissance men cannot “do” everything in one lifetime, even though some soft little voice keeps whispering in our ear that we can. We must wait until technology catches up with our artistic expression.
I should not have disregarded advice to specialize when I was but a pip. But then I would not end up an old loudly fluctuating snoring man with a perpetual question perched on my lips: “I can’t figure out if it’s the end or beginning…” what can we get away with?
That is why I am changing my vote to Little Feat, and precisely Fat Man in the Bath Tub.
my final answer.
Pat Darnell And Friends’s last blog post..MTC 13: What I’ve never told anyone
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Pribek wrote,
Chops are content.
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Sans Direction wrote,
Chops are content.
Part of me really wants to go with that. Part of me does. I just (as in I walked in the door a half hour ago) got back from the Fiddler’s Gathering. This is a “folk” festival, but it takes definition from “Fiddlers”, showing a great acceptance of nearly any music played with an unamplified fiddle. Or, sometimes, as with the case of Johnny Gimble, a little amplification is OK.
I have stood 10 feet away from the great Claude Williams once. I had no idea how great he truly was. Same with Johnny Frigo. I can be an ignorant fool.
Anyway, this evening, one of the artists was Aaron Weinstein, who I had seen jamming in the parking lot when he was 10. Now he’s older and he’s on the stage. And he played “Tico Tico”. And “Stardust”. And a number of other standards. Chops have to be content or else there’s nothing there that hadn’t been said before 1938. 1928?
But it it’s only chops, you get a style of jazz where the only creativity is in taking another pass on something that’s been done by hundreds of people hundreds of times. Which, coincidentally, is pretty much my dink on the Allmans. “Elizabeth Reed” is great. “Jessica” is great. There’s dozens of other greats. Have they written something worth replaying since 1980?
I say this while admitting the great talent of Aaron, of Dickie, of Gregg, of Warrent and of so many others we’re discussing.
I didn’t know who Dan Toler is right off. Hit Wikipedia. See above for “ignorant fool”. But now I know.
Sans Direction’s last blog post..How Long Must We Sing This Song?
Link | June 28th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Pribek wrote,
The fiddle gathering sounds fun. I like the idea of a gathering. It’s good for context because, there is such a thing as a fiddler’s contest and the logic of that kind of thing has always defied me.
When i use the term “chops”, I’m not thinking of somebody who is adept at displaying technique for the sake of it. Freddie Green had chops and never took a solo. Hoagy Charmichel had chops so did Jimmy Reed. I think of it as encompassing all that goes into the execution of a musical performance.
As far as post 1980 Allman Brothers songwriting goes; yeah, I think there’s some worthwhile stuff there, “Kind Of Bird” and “Nobody Knows” come to mind.
Songwriting is something that both bands approached maybe, unconventionally. It’s interesting that Little Feat keeps coming up because one big difference is that there never was a Lowell George in either band.
You can easily envision a situation with both bands, where they are at the top of their games, hitting on all cylinders every night, when nobody was concentrating on writing.
Gregg, for a go-to singer, has never been a prolific writer. He’s written nice stuff but, you don’t picture him walking around with a sack of songs.
The most interesting Dead songs to me, were the ones Robert Hunter had a hand in. It’s an interesting dynamic, reclusive lyricist and constantly gigging player, exchanging ideas and forming songs. I don’t know why more players don’t seek out that sort of thing.
Both bands focus on improv. so, it’s not a sin to use archival material as the platform unless it ceases to be fresh.
I feel that I need to mention Phil Lesh. He’s a different kind of virtuoso. If you isolate his parts, they are very musical, complete statements but, they leave room for everybody else to blow and keep the train on the track. And, Bob Weir too, a rhythm guitarist in a jam band; how many guys do that?
Dan Toler-he’s the forgotten man. I saw him around the time of “Enlightened Rogues” and he gave a ferocious performance-hit me where I lived.
Link | June 29th, 2008 at 12:04 am
axe victim wrote,
Well I have to admit that I know nothing about The Dead. I’ve been saving myself in case it’s all too much. But I love the Allman Brothers in all of their wonderful glory. The highlight for me was finding the glorious Derek and The Dominoes Layla boxed set with the Allmans jams on it. I get a lump in my throat every time I play it.
So what’s a good place for a young lad such as mesself to start with The Grateful Dead without my losing interest. I need a quick fire fix of hippyesque extended jamming with some knock out guitar fireworks to get me started. Anybody?
Link | June 29th, 2008 at 5:18 am
Sans Direction wrote,
Hippyesque extended jamming doesn’t come in quick fixes, axe. It comes in huge chunks. The cheap way to proceed is The GD Archive on Archive.org.
I’m told that, for live Dead stuff, the album to get is Europe ‘72. Also, Live Dead. My complete Dead collection is American Beauty, Reckoning and Hundred Year Hall. I used to have Workingman’s Dead and might get it again.
I like the American Beauty Dead a lot more than the deep improvisational Dead, but that’s me.
Sans Direction’s last blog post..How Long Must We Sing This Song?
Link | June 29th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Pat Darnell And Friends wrote,
Axe, I am being too aggressive this week… trying the impossible, which is to get the last word on these guys… I apologize to you.
I would say this in a psychological preamble — the Dead — I suggest one think of a group of children who have just learned how to dress themselves. They are only a group of scruffy young rascals, barely past playing mumbly peg… Then they have to learn how to go on stage even when they don’t want to. Their politics springs from rugged individualism.
Then they have to learn about girls and female needs to caboodle. But debts grow and your drummer’s dad runs off with all the money. Then become unready, unskilled fathers, the children they create are part of the back stage rabble, which I think might be the first ever Day Care for single parents fighting custody cases. So you must bear down, and work harder, make more tours.
As tension increases, some wealthy roadie on sabbatical shows you that to get the families and Band all moving to the next poorly rigged sound stage somewhere in Louisiana, that here is a cocktail of pharmaceuticals that one can use to be mellow. And here is another package that makes you a better than average lover… and here is the best cocktail to delay your stage fright, or reluctance.
For us hippie dippy types in attendance, we learned to rely on a new phenom — the contact high; it is a guarantee of going to Dead concerts.
Then when the band feels the rewards of a job well done, and look a little contented, disaster comes in threes. “Show me a contented man and I will show you a catastrophe in the making,” some one once said.
–As band member, your small cult following turns into millions who each feels entitled to a piece of you.
–Many of those are soldiers who are actually living your name, who end up memorialized as the Dead.
–Others who opted to not go to Vietnam begin copying the folklore of your work, adapt your ethics to their own path, and killing each other, and themselves over rhymes that you have made.
Pandemic of remorseful homeless Dead Heads walk around San Francisco humming your songs; by 1977 the whole thing has imploded. And China is still red, as is Vietnam, and Russia still thinks it can make more refrigerators than the USA. Gerald Ford falls down regularly as acting President, because Nixon is not a Crook.
If you are a fan who somehow wheedles through the drug misuse and standard packages of STD’s, and you have a rich old man, you finally get your accounting degree. You become a partner, and owner, and have a couple of above-average kids, with a spouse twelve years younger than you. You are a good husband because lord knows you sowed your wild oats long before settling down.
Funny thing is there is no plan in existence for any of this to have happened as it did. Every plan that was presented during ‘64 to ‘77 has failed. Presidents, Civil Rights Leaders, Ministers murdered, others disgraced, and the rest running for their lives after being elected… grief trickling all the way down to the lowest denominator the young Dead offspring growing up in the wake of this disaster of an era.
So the music is of course rich and fantastic. The songs written are real, and complex as well as efficient. Only the strongest survived, and well that’s my story for you Axe. It wasn’t a bloodless civil war, by any stretch.
Pat Darnell And Friends’s last blog post..Discovering New Web Sites
Link | June 29th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Pat Darnell And Friends wrote,
HA!!!!! finally, Last Word… !
Pat Darnell And Friends’s last blog post..Buying Dogfood in Bags can be a real Crap Shoot…
Link | July 1st, 2008 at 12:33 am
Pribek wrote,
Well done!
Link | July 1st, 2008 at 12:51 am
Dave wrote,
d2r2 said…
So,let me get this straight, you have D.& the Dominoes, Layla/Allman Bros. tambien ? I not only get a lump in my throat, I can’t see.
If it is possible, you’re not hoarding it are you ? I don’t blame you. I’ll trade you a boxed Bobba Fett with blaster and a 1955 Mickey Mantle, close-up headshhot.
Okay, just kidding, I’ll give you a full dress Millenium Falcon and an X-Wing with Luke and R2D2, all full sound and lights. All right, final offer. Stan Musial, Nellie Fox and Luis Aparicio and a Spiderman Vol.1, #1 1980, in the cellophane.
July 4, 2008 8:11 PM
Link | July 5th, 2008 at 6:10 am