Friday Night Cage Match/Fondue Party/Evolving Conversation/Dancing About Architecture Vol. 30

Pribek wrote,

Producer/Engineer-I think that George Martin could have built you a console from the ground up same as Dowd and, I think that Dowd was as much a producer as George. The age old questions; “What is a producer?” “What does a producer do?” It’s kind of funny because, that’s what got me going here. I’ve actually seen footage where both guys responded to those questions and even though the style were probably different both men answered the almost exact same-”I can’t tell you what a producer does but here’s what I do” and, in the end it involves finding a place where the artist is comfortable, bringing forth their creativity, seeing their vision and possibly enhancing it.

Back in the day, all producers had engineer skills (real ones too, not just sliding faders, wiring and physics) and generally, the guy who was sliding faders was doing some “producing” even though sometimes without the by-line.

Link | October 11th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

Pribek wrote,

That makes sense Sans. But, I think though that both guys were acting on behalf of the artists. I think that The Beatles were digging all of those strings, baroque trumpets and tape loops and that it was definitely or, at least became, part of their vision once they heard some of it. They had already decided to stop touring and explore the studio as instrument concept.

Those British guys, you didn’t get to be a producer without first showing years of competent ability as an engineer first. At that time if somebody was an EMI or BBC “engineer”, he knew that gear and Bell Labs stuff inside and out.

Back in 50s, early 60s, it was common to cut say a Bobby Bland track send it to NY where they recorded strings and tacked them on. Those records and those strings sound great and, I’m sure some of that stuff got inside the lads heads and, I know that Dowd was involved ion some of that as well.

Maybe, this goes in this direction. If Dowd would have been producing the Beatles, do you suppose that they would have continued to be a four piece band knocking out rock and roll and Sgt. Pepper never happens?

If Martin had Cream, would he made it into a lush, orchestrated affair?

Link | October 11th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Pribek wrote,

Sans, Sans, Sans; It sounds like this is causing you some agony here. Maybe, this would be a good time to point out some things that I have not made public before. This little exercise came about as an alternative to the typical weekend open thread thing that you can find most anywhere. Normally, I am readying to leave for a gig on Friday nights and, I thought of this nebulous device as a way to promote discussion and possibly garner some food for thought in the wee hours when I returned. The real truth is that there is no winner or loser and there was never meant to be. You never have to choose one. And really, if you don’t have an opinion, feel free to spout about what is on your mind.
All that being said, I truly look forward to your insightful commentary here Sans and, your thoughts on this one have encouraged my own mental process for the last several days.
I think you have hit the nail pretty square in the above and very interesting that you bring FZ to the table because that very thing was on my mind concerning multi-tracking.
Zappa recorded everything, I mean everything. He once faced prosecution for pornography charges because he added bits of conversation and girl vocal noises, that he recorded in passing, to a record in the early 60s. He recorded all his live performances. Not only to keep as a document but, also to use as material and compositional device. He was of a mind that he could not get anyone to play a guitar solo in a studio setting, that had anywhere near the nuance of a live one. So, he would often peel the solo from a live track and compose a whole new thing around it. The point is that if you are going to get in to this world of
“sounds being sounds, not performances”, it important to make sure that the sounds were first, recorded well and second, performed well to start with. It is central to the techniques of Zappa and George Martin. If George used a back tracked flugelhorn, he usede the proper mic and placement when he garnered the original sound. The same thing goes for the very layered “Layla” where there are a ton of well recorded guitar parts to pick and choose from when mixing. It’s really an orchestrated record and Dowd is the orchestrator/arranger.
This whole thing has been in my mind and the other day I was thinking this; George Martin and Tom Dowd were record men. They were dedicated to making good records. So is T-Bone, so were Zappa, Sam Phillips and Norman Petty. All of these guys have different guys amounts of ingredients (engineering, producing, promoting, etc.) It’s a different recipe for each.

Link | October 14th, 2008 at 1:07 pm