Comments on: Riff Coppage

By: Pribek

Pribek — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:20:42 +0000

clear case of plagiarism there PD…as soon as I get J. David Esq.(last name omitted in fear of legal action) to return my call, we’ll be in touch

By: carne di cavallo e pasta

carne di cavallo e pasta — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:10:46 +0000

So let me get this straight; Mr. Shapiro holds a patent on the i-iv-III-VII ?
…

Oh shoot! I was just writing this comment and now I see it is already here… what to do?

By: Pribek

Pribek — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:47:30 +0000

music plagiarism-all of these comments serve to demonstrate how ridiculous the notion of music plagiarism is. And, when it’s really tested, in a court, in front of a jury, all bets are off. The George Harrison case involving “My Sweet Lord” scared the crap out of a lot of folks but, after that, there have been some pretty high profile cases where the jury decided in favor of the riff copper. It’s real easy to demonstrate that two songs are similar but difficult to prove that one person stole the thing from another.
Several years ago, I produced a demo for a country singer that we floated around Nashville. One song on there had a distinct intro, a chord progression and a fiddle melody line that was not one of the standard deals. Maybe, six months after we sent the demo around, there was a song that came out, by a major label artist and, they used this whole section note for note as the intro. About 45 seconds (which is a long intro by Nash. standards). It was note for note but, beyond that, it sounded like the same guys playing. When I first heard it, I was wonderihng if they sampled our demo. Now, I didn’t write the song. The two writers are both in the loop down there. They weren’t upset at all. Happens all the time kind of thing. The record ended up being a top twenty on the country chart which, wasn’t a big enough song to get worked up about. It only matters if it makes some money is what you hear a lot.
It’s funny, one thing I noticed was that a lot of these writers and publishers, they don’t get worked up about copyrights. They don’t copyright anything until it’s actually going to be released on a record. Sometimes, a record will start moving up the charts before it gets copyrighted. It’s not a big concern because, it’s pretty easy to prove when you wrote a song but, proving someone stole it is tough and usually not worthwhile.
I think Mr. Shapiro’s lawyers will work out some deal and you won’t hear anymore about it.

By: J

Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:17:15 +0000

So let me get this straight; Mr. Shapiro holds a patent on the i-iv-III-VII ?
Crap! I’d better go tell my music students to quit using that progression…

By: carne di cavallo e pasta

carne di cavallo e pasta — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:37:26 +0000

Good point on the Joe the Drummer…

“OK, let’s imagine, for a moment, a scenario. Let’s say, I’m sitting around the Winnebago some night, and I got the Tele plugged and suddenly, I channel some distant muse.”

What if that muse is not so distant? still got the blues; oh pretty woeman

t’anks Ovidiu… good time music this morning..

By: Ovidiu - GuitarFlame.com

Ovidiu - GuitarFlame.com — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 07:33:30 +0000

Well, OK, how about if we also throw in there Gary Moore’s Still got the blues?

By: Pribek

Pribek — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:44:48 +0000

Ovidiu-”Europa”…I wish I could hear that right now because, if my memory serves me well (not always the case), that song is a great example of riff coppage. It may be another Santana instrumental but, one of them (pretty sure it’s “Europa”) is a direct rip of “The Messiah Will Come Again” by Roy Buchanan.
Kenski-so….were you listening to that or was this a subliminal thing?
PD&F-The amount of content copped doesn’t really matter. It could be a whole progression, it could include everything down to the cover art and liner notes. The only factor is, whether or not the new song made money. If so, lawyer up and you will get some kind of pay day (1/3 off the top, plus operating expenses, expert witness etc.).
Rule of thumb…do you know any drummers that you would ask for a lawyer recommendation?

By: Pat Darnell and Friends

Pat Darnell and Friends — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:32:27 +0000

However, I have a song that I haven’t recorded, with a riff that I came up with 2 years before Shakira (Ovidiu) –and — I once wrote Boulevard Of Broken Dreams and it was someone else who told me that was what I was playing (Kenski) — and — “I absolutely love The Hives and don’t feel great about suing a band I love,” says Shapiro,

What about entire progressions? What’s it worth in body parts — I’m guessing some internal organs and the Soul, too.

Here for your collective pleasures, is the most recent top few choices from my tween’s (ages 12 and 14) Windows Media PlayLists:
Insane Clown Posse / Juggernaut..
Kottonmouth Kings / Royal Highness
Soundtrack from the Crow / Various
Soundtrack from Transformers / Various
Deftones / Rx Queen
The Cure / Burn
Idiot Pilot / Retina and the Sky
Helmet / Milquetoast
Jesus and Mary Chain / Snakedriver
Linkin Park / What I’ve Done
Violent Femmes / Color Me Once

I felt lost at first; but then was found — comparing these “new” sounds to old sounds. In other words most melodies in recent Rock Classed tunes are very similar to the gods of the genesis of rock melodies past. The only difference I can distinguish is that the newer are digital, instead of vinyl… no?

Am I wrong to not start class action suits?

It’s the same thing really. If you get a leg screwed off while you are working for someone that’s got no dough…well, it’s like your riff getting copped by someone that isn’t selling any records.

Epilogue: Drummers talking: “I once wrote this: ‘boom bidda bidda’” and now I hear it in Chinese Democracy..

By: Kenski

Kenski — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:17:11 +0000

I once wrote Boulevard Of Broken Dreams and it was someone else who told me that was what I was playing :-(

By: Ovidiu - GuitarFlame.com

Ovidiu - GuitarFlame.com — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:27:09 +0000

I remember one moment when I composed Santana’s Europa myself…
I was playing the lead to one of my schoolmates, saying look I made this up, and he takes my guitar and plays the same tune. I know, he says, Santana too…
That really happened to me when I was about 17 yo. I had no intention, but Europa remained in my head probably and I just came up with it.

However, I have a song that I haven’t recorded, with a riff that I came up with 2 years before Shakira. My riff is pure rock, her riff is pop or latino or whatever she sings, however, can I possibly say she borrowed it from me? I guess only if she came to the same shows I played the song on…I doubt. If I record the song now everybody will say I copied her song…