Tonight, we have…
Pat Metheny or Allan Holdsworth?
OK, seems like a pretty simple straightforward FNCMFPECDAA but, there’s going to be a little twist. You can talk all you want about arpeggios, harmonic concept, hammer-ons, string skipping, composition; all or any of that. But, what I’m thinking about here is something you don’t see or hear much about anymore and really, it wasn’t too long ago that it was all the rage. I’m talking about the guitar synth. Back in the 80s, early 90s all the cool kats were doing it. The guitar synth was everywhere; from pop records to your local nightclub.
Why did I think of this pair in the context of the guitar synth? For starters, the gear these guys were using. Metheny was using the Roland G 303 and the incredibly expensive and unwieldy Synclavier while Holdsworth was employing the incredibly expensive and unwieldy SynthAxe. These devices differed greatly but, they were considered the top dog state of the art.
Also, where others dabbled with the guitar synth idea, these guys jumped off the high dive and made it a career move. Where a guy like Zappa used the synth as a workstation, orchestral, compositional tool, these guys were using it as a wailing, shredding, soloing, comping voice.
The Synthaxe rocked for its time. It was way more expensive, but the early Roland couldn’t track an elephant in a muddy river bottom. Holdsworth.
Whoa! I’m a huge fan of these guys and have seen them live. Although the synthaxe was fascinating– even when Future Man Wooten used it for a drum kit, I’ve always preferred Holdsworth’s natural guitar tone. He was able to explore some cool things with the synthaxe though, and I appreciate his pioneering with it.
Metheny — the synclavier enables him to emulate great horn & vocal phrasing and create some of those trademark Metheny sounds that appeal to people on different levels. You hear a lot of smooth jazz/ new age people copping some of that stuff, but when you put it side by side with Metheny’s music that stuff goes pale.
Pat Metheny is really able to appeal to a broader audience than Holdsworth. AH shows are typically little club gigs mostly attended by middle aged male guitar geeks– whereas PM shows are in larger more upscale venues and Summer fests with plenty of gorgeous Mini-Cooper & Hummer drivin’ professional cougar-type women.
It’s the difference between those sheets of sound and stretchin’ out simple melodies. Both have the Coltrane thing, but PM also takes the Miles thing, adds extra sugar and really zens out a variety of folks while remaining progressive and sophisticated. Conversations about AH might also include codewriting and soldering techniques.
I dig ‘em both. One of the coolest things ever is Metheny’s legendary rant on Kenny G.
Here’s a link: http://www.saxon.com/stephen/pat-story.htm
I’m going to have more to say here later. Time is tight right now but, I couldn’t let this slide by.
Woah! I’m going to have to check out if Pat is coming anywhere close by in the near future.
When I was thinking about this, I did a little Googling and found out that Metheny used the Roland controller and the Roland synth on a trumpet sound for most of the stuff that I associate him synthing on. But, I do remember him going on about the wonders of the Syclavier in GP mag or something. In fact, both of these guys (I was reading all the interviews back then) seemed so enthused with guitar synth that it seemed as if they might chuck the notion of the regular electric guitar. It seems like AH did at least one entire record with the SynthAxe.
I agree with J on the Roland that was available at the time. I messed around with them a couple of times and found it to be frustrating.
One of the intriguing things about the guitar is that you can play the same note at different places and even though the note is the same there is a different timbre. Beyond that, there is a different way that the note decays.
I never thought PM sounded like he was playing a trumpet and I never really got that AH was trying to ape some other instrument. Everybody that I knew personally, that was using the Roland was doing just that; trying to play a piano or horn part or something. PM and AH, it seemed to me, were really using the synth as a way to get some different sounds but, a lot of them seemed to revolve around altering the natural decay of the note.
I was thinking about all of this on my way to the post office this mmorning and I had the radio on NPR and they were playing “Smooth Jazz”. What’s funny is that all of the guitars I was hearing had a lot of compression and timed delays or harmonically tuned reverbs no doubt attained digitally. They sound like guitars only better. And, really it seems that what it’s all about is manipulating the natural decay of a note. So, it’s not that different than the synth boom of the 80s, except the sounds are identifiable as a guitar.
A got into it a few months back with a Rippingtons fan over a dis I made on Russ Freeman’s too-slick guitar sound. Makes my teeth hurt. I have to go blast Mike Stern’s Upside-Downside to detox. Stern’s searing Roy Buchanan & Albert King meets Coltrane strafing runs on that album send the smoothies diving for cover. Recommend that album as rehab therapy for smoothie abusers. Saw Stern perform with Dennis Chambers and Bob Berg– OMG!!!
Atavachron was the Holdsworth album with the most Synthaxe. Wildly enough, that album also featured lots keyboard synth stuff. Here’s a funny Holdsworth item, in the 80’s the used record bins became a haven for copies of the Metal Fatigue album. AH was gaining major notoriety as a guitar god and all these big hairs were buying Metal Fatigue, scratching their heads and trading it back in for Poison albums. I could see the scenario– esp. with a the name “Metal” Fatigue. Then AH wrote a book which everyone ran out to buy– turned out to be about brewing beer as AH is also a brewmeister. Nothing about guitar.
In the early 80’s I saw Metheny doing his Ornette Coleman thing with some variety of early guitar synth specimen which caused me to have an out of the body experience.
I actually like smoothie jazz only without any guitar. Spyro Gyra is a fun getaway for me, until they add the silly over-compressed token turd-in-the-punchbowl guitar tracks. Yellowjackets with Robben Ford were cool. Stern’s supposed to be working with the Jackets these days– which is a nice kick of cayenne to the gumbo. Those boys are serious musicians.
Coming to you from Dallas this AM [stop]
We’re on a mission of family reunion [stop]
Spent last two days in Farmers Branch [stop]
Other wise roughing it at the Staybridge Suites [stop]
Ha! [stop]
Ain’t life grand… Synth? Heidei blum and Guitar Hero. [stop]
Guitar, is a guitar, is a guitar, by any other name is still a guitar… Go ask Ron Roskowske what can you do to make your guitar sound like a Basset Horn?[stop]
Spent the day yesterday listening to Marsalis Father Son album… and watching home movies from our sixties… [stop]
Tears were shooting out of our eyes, splattering Cousin Paul’s recently replastered walls…[stop]
each time we saw or said a word about cousins we lost or ailing brothers sisters aunts uncles grands and great grands, cry fest [stop]
Thanks to my treasured Cousins, Paul, Lesan, Alice and the Queen mothers/ sisters octogenarians… smooth operations [stop]
don’t forget:
“The fortune of fables are able to sing the songs
Now witness the quickness with which we get along
To sing the blues you have to live the tunes and carry on” [stop]
If you don’t know what it means, I don’t either [stop]
Obituary well said:
“I [stratoblogster] could see the scenario– esp. with a the name “Metal” Fatigue. Then AH wrote a book which everyone ran out to buy– turned out to be about brewing beer as AH is also a brewmeister. Nothing about guitar.” [stop]
“…whereas PM shows are in larger more upscale venues and Summer fests with plenty of gorgeous Mini-Cooper & Hummer drivin’ professional cougar-type women.”
Cousin Paul, that’s what Dallas is all about, voted Metheny… [stop] add me to that, two for PM… [stop]
PD, thanks for checking in from the road. Sounds like a grand time, give my best to all. I don’t think I’ve met Cousin Paul but, I can say that the Dallas vibe is more PM than AH. You know though, I was in Dallas a couple of years ago and I saw an establishment with this on a blinking sign…
I’m not sure how that applies; just a Dallas memory.
SB-Yeah, I remember when they were trying to market Holdsworth to the diatonic minor, hairspray crowd. It seemed to me like some of that music wanted to evolve but the fans wouldn’t allow it.
As far as guitar synth goes, in general, I’ll walk out of the room. But, Holdsworth and Metheny; I will listen to them synth out. Seems like they just have interesting musical ideas. I like Atavachron and Metal Fatigue btw but, I think my favorite Holdsworth is still IOU which was a lot more sparse. I think my favorite of Pat’s is Bright Size Life because it’s kind of a jazz power trio. Jaco is cool on it but I really really dug Bob Moses.
Stern is a gut player with jazz knowledge as is Ford in my mind. Good combination sort of savory/sweet. I’ve heard some of the Yellowjackets with Stern and I think they made a wise choice.
Also, regarding the PM/Kenny G business; that was a hoot. Have you ever heard the tune Richard Thompson wrote about it?
Here’s a link to the MP3
http://www.richardthompson-music.com/audio/I_Agree_With_Pat_Metheny.mp3
Thanks for posting the Richard Thompson link! He comes from a different place too. Imagine a John Prine tune about the same situation. Gives new meaning to “Illegal Smile”.
Metheny
I hold both in high regard. But nearly everybody has abandoned the dedicated synthesizer-controlling guitar, from Allan and Pat on down. There is only one who is still using a SynthAxe. Therefore, I’m voting Future Man, drummer for the Flecktones.
Good to see you Sans. Future Man has it going on for sure. Maybe it’s just me and my Luddite tedencies but, it kind of weirds me out watching him and correlating the drum sounds with what he’s doing physically. I mean he’s playing cool stuff, grooving like a monster but, he’s twiddling away on this strange, semi-guitar shaped thing. Yeah, it’s probably just me but for some reason I can accept AH up ther making all these orchestrated sounds with the same device.
It wasn’t that I didn’t read it or that I wasn’t online. It was that I was mulling it over and finding myself feeling too underinformed as to their careers to really comment. If it was opened to general musicianship, I’d be finding myself thinking John McLaughlin and Al DiMeola and then backing off. Specifying the synth guitar really let me off the hook.
My jam partner has a VG88 and a few stick-on Roland MIDI pickups, but I don’t think he has the new sounds redefine how he sounds in any significant sense. I see much more simplifying an existing technique (like Joni using a midified Parker Fly to hold her many tunings) and slight augmentation (like Steve Morse having string patches swell up on occasion behind his fundamental guitar tone) rather than a core redefinition of technique. Except with Future Man.
It gets to your point with the Moog guitar. My friend is thinking of getting a Floyd Rose with Ghost piezo saddles and a VG99. But beyond the actual wiring and setup to allow him to control the MIDI from the guitar, just straight hardware, he’s looking at over $1K and quite possibly $2K. Maybe more. Is there anyone who is still in the developing point of his style who is capable of dropping that kind of coin on an instrument?
In other news, I’ve been watching Tommy Shannon’s bass video from Netflix, and I think I understand walking bass a lot more now, and that’s beyond chromatic walkups and root-fifth-domseven-octave jumps. I feel like a much better musician today.
Interesting point that the one guy who redefined a technique with the guitar synth was a drummer.
Good stuff about Tommy’s vid. and the walking bass! I think that it speaks volumes when you say you feel like a much better “musician”.