Friday Night Cage Match/Fondue Party/Evolving Conversation/Dancing About Architecture Vol. 71
November 6, 2009 · Posted in Discussion, Ramble
John McLaughlin or Carlos Santana?
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14 Responses to “Friday Night Cage Match/Fondue Party/Evolving Conversation/Dancing About Architecture Vol. 71”
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Pribek At Zazzle
The post to blame: Most Peculiar Mama (Don't Eat Your Cat)
I can’t really say. Much more knowledgable about Carlos, but had Inner Mounting Flame in the queue a lot this week. Pass.
Except, you get them head-to-head, with a good, tight and rehearsed band behind them, everyone in the audience is a winner.
Perfect example of the “Style vs Content” argument. Also a perfect and most challenging FNCMF…
Santana is a mainstream, household name guitar legend, which didn’t happen by accident. His naturally emotive and vocal phrasing influences all guitar players, and appeals to soccer moms as well. He’s no marketing slouch either. But in the grand tradition of legendary Blues and Jazz improvisers, CS can speak volumes with a single note. We gotta have that!
McLaughlin sorta works the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of runs and harmonic/compositional sophistication. More exclusively a guitar player’s guitar player, and unknown to most soccer moms, we have JM to thank for most of our Fusion heroes.
But that spectrum is mostly about Miles & Jimi; both CS and JM being spokes on the Miles hub, turning on the Hendrix axis.
I’m gonna go with McLaughlin because he takes me to more places. Santana takes me to great places too, but just not as many. So I think JM opens more pathways for guitar players who wanna discover a broader vocabulary.
Someone in a recent Jeff Beck Youtube comment thread said something like this (paraphrased):
“When you try to play like Jeff Beck you fail, but you end up finding your own style.”
I try to take guitarosity out of the equation and ask myself; “Which one interests me more musically?” And, I would have to tip the scales to McLaughlin.
I listened to “Soul Sacrifice” a few days ago and was struck by the energy Carlos transmitted. Still holds up. I always wonder about how much the digital dust that resides between the pickup windings and the vacuum tube in situations like this. Because really…I’ve been disappointed with John’s later stuff…all the chorus/delay/compression that all the other guys have (and he seems hell bent on appropriating Beck’s whammy ironically).
I remember buying “Love, Devotion, Surrender” the same time I bought “Caravanserai” and I liked the Santana record better than the McGlaughlin/Santana. Probably ought to revisit both.
I don’t think you will see McGlaughlin taking over Bette Midler’s Vegas slot or designing woman’s shoes. But hey, each to his own.
When it comes to tone. Santana is a pioneer. Think about how much he did for Mesa Boogie and PRS. Would either of those companies be at their current levels without Santana? The industry of saturated guitar tone owes a significant amount to CS.
A joint interview with John and Yngwie.
http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/mclaughlin/art/flash.html
For me, I only go to John when I’m trying to expand my horizons or think like a better guitarist. I listen to Santana when I want to hear something cool. It’s utterly devoid of didacticism, but rather just is.
didacticism…hmmm…are you of the opinion that JM is spewing forth instruction?
Nope, but there are folks where you don’t need to study to understand the attraction and you don’t need to be invited into the cult to be exposed to the music. I don’t believe that, when I was growing up, you had to go far out of your way to hear the work of Carlos Santana. John? He was always in the guitar mags and books as a listen-in guy, but beyond the 70s Miles albums (which, testimony in the PBS Jazz documentary to the contrary, are not easy-to-digest popular music), I don’t think I heard a note of the guy until 2005. So, you need to make a decision that you’re going to study this guy to become a better musician before his music enters your life. At least with me.
JM: Guitar faces? … he isn’t so didactic, he looks like a nice guy: not formidable, or spewing, just calmly at work — with 18 strings on stage
http://www.e-rockworld.com/images/mclaughlin.jpg
Mr Direction:
I think you have just explained the crux of the bixcuit. No kidding. Brilliant, [and I'm not just sayin' so because it's you.]
pdaf
I can see that Dave. Is it part of the big consumerism machine though?
I mean, what if you were riding in the car with your parents and heard Mahavishnu or Eric Dolphy in between Styx and Seals and Croft? Yeah, it’s a bizarre concept but, bizarre because it doesn’t make commercial “sense”.
There’s only twelve notes, if kids were exposed to all of them it wouldn’t be weird.
If you look at the 50 top label vids on YouTube then, look at the 50 top indie vids, it’s all the same stuff. It’s a reaction to the way business has been done for so long. After all of the history of music and, at a time where anybody can release anything they want, anybody can consume anything they want…the culmination is a heap of stuff that sounds like Britney Spears.
A buddy of mine bought one of those vocal harmonizers that hooks up to a guitar and it’s got a warning label; “Don’t play Indian music through this device.” I don’t know, maybe it explodes when overloaded with quarter tones.
Dave Sans: That old Musician Mag interview is incredible! I have bankers boxes of those mags bagged away. When Musician went away, I believe Matt Resnicoff was hired as GP editor for a very short time. He’s one of my all time favorite music journalists and interviewers. A whole lotta information in that interview!!!
Listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jid9GpADlRg When growing up, I listened to hours upon hours of the hits of the 50s and 60s, put on eight-tracks by my parents. Eventually, I started developing my own ears and started hearing other music, leading to college, and I have to say, this sounded and sounds more like pop music, more a direct descendant to the music that came before the Beatles started smoking pot and listening to sitar music, than anything that was on the radio in the fall of 1988 when I first heard this. Yeah, it’s hardcore OC punk, as the labels go, and very indie and Maximum Rock ‘n Roll, but I think it’s a better song than most anything on the 1988 Billboard Hot 100 (http://www.cylist.com/List/400300149/) , So, yeah, I get that.
But on the other hand, if Mahavishnu was a radio staple, would getting Mahavishnu feel like such an achievement?
.-= Sans Direction´s last blog ..Teaching Old Ponies New Tricks =-.
side note: is it a true story Dylan gave Beatle boy’s their first doobies … ? or just another rock-myth .. wondered about that for many years now.
.-= Pat Darnell and Friends´s last blog ..We can always play the FAT Ticket… when all else fails =-.